Interview - Ronald Brown
Ronald Brown
Noé Montes
I want to ask you a little bit about your experience. You can share as much as you'd like. Let's start with your name and your age.
Ronald Brown
Ronald Brown, aka Pepper.
Noé Montes
Where are you from originally?
Ronald Brown
Iowa. The Midwest. Fort Dodge, Iowa.
Noé Montes
When did you come to Los Angeles?
Ronald Brown
I came here as a runaway when I was fourteen. I'm fifty-eight now, I just celebrated my fifty-eighth birthday. I never looked back. Got in trouble with personal checks, financial instruments second degree. Did two years in San Quentin. And then because I'm a gang member, more so, my gang relations kicked in.
Noé Montes
What gang were you a part of?
Ronald Brown
I'm a White Crip.
Noé Montes
Still?
Ronald Brown
There's no way out. The only way out is a pine box. It's just how you interact. Now we're more up here (points to head), business-like mentality. I hit Skid Row because my own attitude put me there. It wasn't because I was strung out at that time. My own attitude put me on Skid Row. Once I'd been there so long, Skid Row became my comfort zone. Did you ever go over the Fourth Street Bridge? That first square, that landing, see that camp there, that was mine. That was my house for like thirteen years.
Noé Montes
So you came here at fourteen? What did you do when you first got here? Were you working or were you just hustling?
Ronald Brown
I was out hustling at first and then I got a job in San Gabriel and Rosemead. Tom's Discount Tires, offroad vehicles, because I had some training in auto mechanics. Then I got into that trouble, went to San Quentin for false use of financial instruments second degree, which is personal bad checks. I did my two years, got out, and I got stuck in the revolving doors. I sold to the undercovers, powder cocaine. And then I started using drugs and worsened myself with that because with drugs comes the cigarettes, comes the alcohol. And then once I started using what I sell, I went down, down, down. Then I caught another three years for shooting someone. They got me for battery with intent to do great bodily harm. And then I got out and by that time, I'm like, “You know what? I'm not getting high off this no more. I've done hit the wall.” Every drug user sooner or later hits a brick wall where no matter what they buy, you just don't get high no more. And so I got tired of being broke. I got tired of not having no roof over my head when it rained. Then I had like five times somebody burned up my whole tent, my bikes. Jealous people. You know I got tired of being on the losing end, living on Skid Row. At this time, I pretty much ran Skid Row. Sixth and Gladys. So then I started getting cleaned up. I said, look, I gotta leave this area totally because I'm not gonna get sober. I'm not gonna stop using if I don't leave Skid Row. So I went down to Mom's Lap. 151st St., South Central Compton. I started my sobriety there. And something funny happened, I got my birth certificate in the mail that I sent away for, then my social security card come, my ID came. I'm like "Man I'm really learning about myself, I'm getting back to life!" and then I got my first negative drug test from the drug counselor, and I was so proud of that test. I'm like "I really did a month without drugs!" That meant something to me like "I can do this. I can hit this!" She [the counselor] was like "Pepper, don't go back downtown yet. You’re a month clean, don't do it. Something is gonna piss you off, you're gonna say fuck it, you're gonna go to the bar, you're gonna buy some liquor, you're gonna buy some cigarettes, and that's gonna lead to you want some coke." And I didn't take her at her word. I'm like man, why didn't I listen to Mom [the counselor]?
I went back down there [to Skid Row] and got back in the mix. And this time I’m like, “Okay I'm not gonna use.” Made my first sale of a full key [kilogram] after a few days. Bought my little car and I'll be damned, it's like cops had it in for Pepper. Because every time I wake up, there's a ticket on my window. Every time I go buy groceries or something to eat, there's a ticket on my window. I'm like “You know what? You should've listened to Mom. Mom's done you right.” She's got me going to church; she helped me get my ID and everything. It's the little stuff that added up for me to quit. Knowning I was just spending that money and not getting high no more, but the little stuff helps. And Mom was like "I'm not gonna tell you. I'm not gonna tell you. You already know." I'm like "What, Mom? I told you so? Go on, preach me a sermon, Mom." She's like "What good would that do? You’re just gonna go back down that road anyway. I'm gonna do something better. I'm gonna let you hit that brick wall a second time." And I did. They towed my car; I quit my job. You know, I'm like, "Is this to be my life?" So, you know, it took forty-one years on Skid Row, before I really, really quit [using drugs].
Let me tell you like this. Even a person that's working full-time right now, five days a week, they're still under poverty. You actually have to be working two jobs a day, five days a week, to even pull a little ahead. People can’t even buy houses right now they're so high priced. And then every time you go the grocery store, you go in there and buy ten, fifteen items, there goes another two, three hundred dollars. It’s not cheap living right now! Yeah, I pay forty dollars rent right here but who's to say they aren't gonna cut my GR [Housing Subsidy and Case Management Program] off in any given month? Because that's all I'm on now is GR. So you see, all the stuff in here, I got my bike and everything; this is my whole life right here. Yeah, I paid for that TV but it's a used TV; it's not brand new. The only thing that's brand new is my bike and my toys up there that light up. So you see, it's not like I'm living in a lavish life because I'm not. I'm barely getting by. But one thing I have to show you is a lot of months my dogs have more food than I got. If I was to lose my two puppies right now, I'd probably say fuck it. I had one kitten that died and then I got these two. A lot of people think just because I live inside, I got it made, I got money. No darling, I'm afraid your highly mistaken. What I got is a whole lot of bullshit paperwork in my wallet. I ain’t even got a dollar in there because I went and bought that green bag of dog food for thirty dollars. So you see, the only thing that really means something to me, is me. Keeping my dogs looking good and healthy and lovable, and keeping my sobriety going strong.
I been sober going on two years. Two years without dope and stuff. I've been living here one year. I did one year on the streets sober. That's what made me come in off the street. I knew I could live in a dope area and not use every day and smile every day. Wake up and go to work. I'm telling tell you what, the hardest thing, it wasn't drugs or the alcohol, the hardest thing is the nicotine. The hardest thing is, once you get that attitude, fuck it, plan on crashing. Because you're gonna crash sooner or later. If you're smoking dope, sooner or later you're gonna get caught with drugs on you, go to jail. It's “What do you want? What means the most to you?” Right now, keeping a roof over my puppies’ heads. That's all I care about. Don't disrespect my puppies. Don't abuse my puppies. No, you cannot walk my dogs. No, you cannot watch them. When I gotta go to an appointment or something, you see over there, their water and their food, I don't regulate their eating. I let them eat when they want, plus I cook for them. But you know what, it's like these dogs made me care again.
Noé Montes
How long have you had the dogs?
Ronald Brown
One year. Humphrey, the little Maltese, he's a rescue. I don't love either one of them more than the other. I love them both. Now we have our days where we have to tussle in here and I got bounce them off the bed. Brain loves it when we play. You always gotta grasp. Some people are like, “Grasp on to the father. Grasp on to the gospel. Grasp on your mother, whatever.” Well, what if you ain't got no mother? What if you ain't got no one that close? You see, that's the problem with me because doing dope, I'm always expecting the worst out of people. Because a lot of the time that's what it ends up as. So you see, I push a lot of people away when they start yelling and screaming and all this. I'm like I'm fifty-eight and I'm about to hit sixty. I ain't got time for all that.
The hardest part was coming right here to this address. I've been at Skid Row, downtown LA, all my life. Coming somewhere new, where you don't know no one, you don't know where the store is, you don't know where the bank is to withdraw your money. It's a whole new learning how to walk and stuff. So basically, I had to take myself totally out of Skid Row’s picture. Skid Row is Skid Row and it's there. But I had to take myself out of the picture and get off the grid. Now I've been off the grid two years and I'm good with that. I got officers that go by like "Pep, can you take a picture with me? My kid is fucking up right now. Starting to use marijuana, starting school. Can I use you as an example?" I'm like "Sure." So see, I got people seeing me for me now. They not seeing Pepper doing dope, they not seeing Pepper smoking dope. They're seeing Pepper paying rent and getting his dog a haircut when he needs it. It's like I said, you got to grasp onto something that you really, really love. And mine are my two dogs.
Noé Montes
That's what you have now?
Ronald Brown
Yeah, that's what I have and I'm happy with that. I'm the happiest right now. I am, I am.
Noé Montes
You said it was hard moving in here.
Ronald Brown
It was hard leaving from down there because I know everybody. I ran the whole Sixth and Gladys. I worked at Gladys Park. Wearing a yellow vest, cleaning up all day. I knew everyone's name, everyone knew me. It's hard coming to no-man's land. Where you don't know nothing.
Noé Montes
Even though you're inside?
Ronald Brown
I didn't even know where I was gonna get my groceries at or nothing. And I still don't know how to ride the red line [subway]. Where I can catch that to this bus stop. So then I sit back one day, I'm like, “You know what? Why am I even tripping? Let me grab my phone and take a picture of what this train stop is.”
You know what? This is what's crazy. From using dope, having nothing at all, to having my medical insurance, my birth certificate, my ID, my ninety-day TAP card. So, you see, this is where it's at. And if you can hold on to all your little food stamp cards and all this and have all your credentials on call, yeah, you do it. You're living life.
Noé Montes
But it took you a minute to get all this together?
Ronald Brown
Yeah, I had to bust my ass.
Noé Montes
When you were on Skid Row, there were a lot of services, right? How hard or how easy is it to navigate all that?
Ronald Brown
It's really easy. But! Let me tell you about a dope smoker. We ain't trying to navigate all that stuff. ‘Cause there's so many people coming to downtown LA, feeding you and stuff. You're never gonna go hungry. Plus, you got the Catholic worker, the hippie kitchen. Yeah, plus you got LACAN [Los Angeles Community Action Network]. I'm a member of LACAN. So you see, a lot of people, as a dope smoker, you ain't trying to get all your credentials and stuff. You're trying to cut that shit up real quick so you can cop a fake name. Now a person ain't gonna quit using, they ain't gonna be a success, if they don't put in the effort. You got to inventory yourself; I can't inventory you. I can guide you the right way. But does that mean are you gonna accept it? You gotta go within yourself. How much of the rocky bottom do you gotta taste before you surface to the top and say fuck it, you’re done? You got to inventory yourself. What do you want? I can guide you all day long. I can hold your hand, take you to every little benefits spot. Does that mean you gonna keep your appointments? You have to be ready. If you ain't ready, leave it alone. Then you ain't ready and I'm telling you that now. You gotta want a better life.
Look, 95% of people that die on Skid Row, they don't die at the hands of another. You know what they die of? Hyperthermia. Concrete drains your body heat. But you ain't thinking about that when you’re smoking dope. Because dope's gonna keep you on go. When you finally lay down, go to sleep, it’s because you're totally exhausted. And that's not a good sleep. You know why? Because you go into a deep sleep when you're comatose. And when you’re comatose, I can take whatever I want from you. You're not even gonna move or say nothing, because you’re comatose. You've done burned every circuit. There are less people dying of overdoses then there is hypothermia or being ran over. You heard about downtown LA, how many times that Metro bus jumped the curb and ran over people in tents, happens a lot. There are a lot of people that go out of their way to try to hit the homeless on their bikes and stuff.
Noé Montes
So now you're obviously at a better place. You've been here a year. Have you gotten used to it?
Ronald Brown
I don't trip on it no more. Life's about learning. Check this out, how old are you?
Noé Montes
I'm 51.
Ronald Brown
You're out of school? You're no longer in college?
Noé Montes
Yes.
Ronald Brown
No, you're wrong, you're wrong. Every day is a chance to learn something new. You're still in school, I'm still in school, dogs are in school even. No, I don't care what your age is, you're never out of school. Never, never.
Noé Montes
Are you working?
Ronald Brown
No. There's gonna be a brand-new place in the fall. That new ReFresh Spot on Crocker. It's opening up in the fall. I already got a job there, $27 an hour. I'm going back to work; I'm gonna be full-time. Steve [from Housing for Health] already got me assigned a job there. Look at me! Got my house. Got my clothes and stuff, and now I'm ready to go back to work. Look at me doing it all again. Like I'm a teenager. I would say hurry up and finish building it. That's what kind of friends I got. Steve, Pete [from LACAN], and all them. Paul comes up here every week and sees me. Paul Freedman, the one that did The Dirty Divide. I'm in that movie like seven times.
Noé Montes
So you're in a good place?
Ronald Brown
I'm in a good place.
Noé Montes
Is there anything else you'd like to add?
Ronald Brown
I'm gonna add this. Skid Row can burn a fire in a person. Skid Row is always gonna be Skid Row. You could take me from Skid Row, but Skid Row is right here in my heart always. I learned a lot, went through a lot of pain, a lot of losses, everything. But that's what made me so strong right here today. If I didn’t go through this, I wouldn't be where I am today. But let me say this, just because a person can't seem to function in an apartment, this is not for everyone. This here housing unit is fifty-five and up. We're all damn near senior citizens. You have to want this. I mean, I could be Housing Authority and I could put you in a place rent-free. But are you capable of functioning? That's what they need to look at. Okay, you've heard it already from Karen Bass. "We have a whole lot of warehouses." Okay, I don't care how hard you try. You're not going to get everybody off the street. I've turned down three keys before I got this one.
Noé Montes
You weren't ready?
Ronald Brown
No, I wasn't ready. But look where they wanted to put me. Wanted to put me in Hawaiian Gardens. Hawaiian Gardens is dope dealing. How's that gonna help me when I'm drug free? You want to put me right back in the mix? Then they want to send me out to Inglewood. I'm like, Inglewood is so clean. You can't sleep anywhere in Inglewood on the sidewalk. Then they want to put me in an old folks’ home. I'm like, Nah, I'm not even old. What the fuck? Fifty-eight is just a number. You see me in a wheelchair walking with a cane or anything? No, you don't. Come on now. So, you see, you might put people in here. But can they survive in here? Can they function in here? You gotta look at the person. Some people need a counselor at their side 24/7. Some people like me can just be happy with, I mean, I don't want for nothing. Coffeepot brewing coffee, got my bike, got food, got a roof over my head, got my TV. I have to step up off the street and be happy right here. Some people can't.
Noé Montes
You say you turned down three places but then you did take this place. What was the difference?
Ronald Brown
Age. I was tired. I'm tired of looking for houses and all this. They said fifty-five and up. Old people don't argue and fight. [Both my dogs] have ESA, emotional support animal, licenses. They have to keep that red cross on them but I can take them in any store, any restaurant, any Uber, that's dog friendly. As long as my dogs are happy. It took both of them a while. Now they start playing tug of war, they're starting to bite on each other, roughhousing. It took a year to bring them to brother status. I've got good dogs.
I'm gonna say this about Skid Row. Just because people are on Skid Row that don't mean they don't need guidance or love. Sometimes some people need an extra little help. And, like it says in the Bible, the father says, "If you do unto somebody lesser than you, then you've already done unto me, and your place is made in the kingdom." Sometimes you gotta let the Lord do the work.
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Transcript has been edited for clarity.